> Well I hope you see now that this is clear after reading the dialogue. He did not know who she was: she was wearinga mask. Clearly, of course,the Somerton ritual is a mirror of Ziegler's party (with each event inmany ways serving as the 'truth' of the other): whether its Mandy atthe party or at the ritual or at both, the outcome is still the same:a corpse in a morgue. > Take another listen. news:47897d0b$0$5129$4c36@roadrunner.com > Harry writes: (seen on google)>> >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense >> >>> of>>> anything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligible >> mumbling),<<<>, >> No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare >> kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" >>Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >>her voice in his head while looking over the body. I think the voice would have rung a bell and the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so he was in shock. Web .

1925 . That is a possible explanation. How doesshe know this? Tom Cruise in the Masked Ball ritual scene from Stanley Kubrick's masterpiece Eyes Wide Shut with Jocelyn Pook's haunting score filling the temple. I'm your Mutineer~ - Warren Zevon- -. The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays her voice in his head while looking over the body. The way Zeigler confirms it was Mandy is matter of fact and it isn't as though Bill seemed surprised at this--even if the audience might still be confused. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<> Wasn't the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman?? The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns > Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. And coming from the newsgroup'sresident acid-headed, solipsistic zombie. Is that how youwould describe it? Please either stop orshape up. > So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) this> would 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? You saw > her volunteer to sacrifice herself so the orgy managers would let Doctor > Cruise go free.>> If the woman in the mask had been the same woman as Mandy, you would have > expected some recognition of that from Doctor Cruise. WebThere are constant hints throughout the film of it being a story about one man's ego and insecurities. [Some irrelevant pseudo-Buddhist gibberish snipped]. It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing. 2. I am still on the side of those who think SK left that scene of the reflection of the sound man holding the boom mike at his crotch, in the crome tub enclosure, on purpose, that the DVD edited out. reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before[at least under your supplied handle/ID]. Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from the bathroom, till he happened to see the news story and saw the name "Amanda," then it started to come together. NG was :>the realization of that potential. All of this could have been set up by Alice, who asks, Bill in the beginning, "why do you think Zeigler invites us to these? And how does Bill know that a cape and a mask was appropriate attire? I don't think there were any other dreams, although the redpool table scene always seemed the most dreamlike to me. A powerful man realizes one night that his wife has had not one but myriad WebThe masked woman in the secret party appears to be Mandy (Amanda Curran), who overdosed on speedball in the movies opening, and Bill revived her. Masks - both literal and figurative - are a major motif, and one of the most important sequences is when Bill infiltrates a masked sex party at a remote mansion, which is being held by members of high society. Perhaps it> would have worked better if there had been a photo in the news> article. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > This is still a mystery. '<<<<<<<<<<<> I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. We could say that even Nick was in on it and the phone call to Nick in the Jazz club was a set up to pique Bill's interest, even letting Bill knows the password. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. and> pleading with her to take off her mask? The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at the same time, being simplke and concrete. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, hasit confirmed by someone else (Ziegler)", Ditto. Models at the party attended by the Royal Family. "anachoronistic Deleuze and Guattari? Those critics of EWS must have been delerious. In a > case like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his > mind, but he was kinda busy. >>>>>>>>>>>And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton peopleonly learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious ofhis manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coatpocket?<<<<<<<<<<<<<. In Dr. Bill's "dream," the masked woman he meets (played by Abigail Good) and who he later sees dead in the morgue, is a distortion of the woman he met at the party when he was still "awake" partying with his wife. Given that you have, as you already admitted, absolutely nounderstanding of the terms used or indeed the context in which theywere used, your pedantry is now exposed as pure and contemptiblefraudulence. The silence of the empty mind, like the silent empty space we see in 2001, is the best path to curing your mania. In fact, the only actual dream in the film is unseen, is onlylater described - namely, Alice's dream/nightmare about having sexwith numerous men (strikingly similar to the fate of the women atSomerton) in which Bill is openly humiliated, and told to Bill justafer he returns from Somerton. For instance,it's fairly obvious from the start who the Mysterious Woman is. I enjoy the > mystery entirely and will return to it over and over and could watch the > film again and again.>, >>>>>>>>>>>>> And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequently> send a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? ", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. -- Steven L.Email: sdli@earthlinkNOSPAM.netRemove the NOSPAM before replying to me. He wasn't positive. at the > ceremony/orgy. That is what she was" implying that her death> is of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Ziegler> chooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by the> Zieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by his> desire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house> ("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do you want me to say..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. Orgy? Regardless of the different actresses in the credits, what I see is that the woman at the ceremony, who redeems him, apparently the "mysterious woman," has a small freckle/mole on her chest about 2 inches to her left side of center, above her breasts, which I think, can also be seen slightly on the corpse. WebOne of the masked women warns him he is in terrible danger. And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequentlysend a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? Poor pitiful morons that we all are -thank Bog he's put off Nirvana for so long. I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. WebDirected by Stanley Kubrick Writing Credits Cast (in credits order) verified as complete Produced by Music by Jocelyn Pook Cinematography by Larry Smith (lighting Desire is always Other. it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." Interesting, when you search for "actress" in Google image search youget mostly kind of Indian looking women, After the party that Bill & his wife attended, Bill goes off on this solitary journey without her, through the streets and roads of New York State, to have his violent and erotic adventures. Well at least you're ostensibly modest enough to acknowledge yourunfamiliarity with such a concept, but then you proceed to betray yourdumb, sniggering agenda by perpetuating your ignorance with adismissive, anti-intellectual fart: > My extra-fat dictionary yields the> following: "rhi'zome, n. A rootlike stem under or along the ground,> ordinarily in a horizontal position, which usually sends out roots from> from its lower surface and leafy shoots from its upper surface.". A part-time hobby soon blossomed into a career when he discovered he really loved writing about movies, TV and video games; he even (arguably) had a little bit of talent for it. Well thats all true, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and one of the most amazing films ever made IMO. because Bill didn't get to see him up close like the film audience. Milich even tried to talk Bill into renting a more colorful costume. No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare clear and she has a very distinctive voice. > No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare > clear and she has a very distinctive voice. If this were really thecase, wouldn't Bill have recognised that voice when speaking to themasked woman at Somerton, instead of asking her "Who are you?" >> The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy all> along. > People often don't make definitive connections between things at the > moment. --And men fancied he was dusted in gold. In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is) on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage betweenMandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and theAmanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drugoverdoses. But that's not the half of it. As though testing how well Bill's implanted suggestions had taken..????? But then again when Superman puts on a pair of plain eyeglassesLois Lane, or anyone else fails to recognize him as Clark Kent! 0. It seems evident that Kubrick carefully selected the Rothschild-owned location and hand-picked the masks worn by participants of the ritual, echoing real-life families and events. >In a big crowd of masked> people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is). You're coming across as yet another FUCKING TROLL!! Much of what we have seen is Bill's non-verbal reactions to all this, which is full of shock and bewilderment. EWS was potential. The second half of Eyes Wide Shut sees Bill being given ominous warnings from this secret society, and he can't seem to find his mask from the party. I trhink Steven Lizberger is right. There's like a billion posts here at alt.movies.kubrick and you cansearch the archives for this information. while walking down one of the NY streets, the background glowsbeautifucally. When we see the news article about dead Mandy, it says "Beauty Queen"but how did Bill know that was the same woman who ODd or helped him atthe orgy, since he never knew the real name of either? Please either stop > or> shape up. ", wrote:> In rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey . The official cause of death was from a heart attack. Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage between> Mandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and the> Amanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drug> overdoses. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I know." My extra-fat dictionary yields the following: "rhi'zome, n. A rootlike stem under or along the ground,ordinarily in a horizontal position, which usually sends out roots fromfrom its lower surface and leafy shoots from its upper surface.". <<<<<<<<< >>>>>> described (and. and she > replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," > Mandy says, "I know." This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the filmitself, there is absolutely no indication - other than Ziegler'sdubious contention - that Mandy is also the masked woman at Somerton.There could even have been two deaths. Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually knowabout Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask <<<<<<<<<<<<. He then breaks down crying and confesses to Alice his misadventures of the past few days. He did not know who she was: she was wearing> a mask. ANSWER. Alot was going on, he had to figure it out. Barcaluv. It is only when Ziegler responds> positively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman in> the morgue?" If it'ssupposed to be obvious, then why is it treated as such a great revelation,and why is a character who is presented as being reasonably intelligentso dense as not to see it? Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curransuffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make aconnection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafethat set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier servedas Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? WebI n the film "Eyes Wide Shut", who was the masked woman that redeemed Tom Cruise's character? This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. 10 Stanley Kubricks Sudden Death. -- Steven L.Email: sdli@earthlinkNOSPAM.net, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB6g66OYoKI, "Steven L." wrote in message. It was in the trailer or a TV spot. So check out Mandy's Wink on the slab---it's very fast, but it is there:), Yeah but he used the same actor for different roles in Dr Strangeloveand in some scenes of Eyes Wide Shut he has Cruise on a treadmillagainst a blue screen using real photography of NYC behind him, thenin the next scene Cruise is filmed against a set in england. Statanic mass? That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a totaldenial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it'sall just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions ofBill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to sayingthat everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all'in his mind'). "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I > know.". <<<<<<<<<<<<<>. The "over the rainbow" remark earlier at Zeigler's party was already a suggestion for Bill to think of his patient who owned "Rainbow Fashions." He treated her as a not-very-importantpatient; no Mandys attend Bill's upmarket surgery. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any > way. But examine the frame showing the overhead shot in the morgue, with all the shots of Mandy in the bathroom. WebSleep Mask for Women, Eye Mask for Sleeping Blindfold Block Out Light and Relieves Dry Eyes with Extra Gel Beads Pad,Super Smooth and Flower Patterns 4.4 4.4 out of 5 stars >>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>wearingmasks? > But I agree the way it is done is brilliant and it leaves all of us unsure > of everything, opening up infinite possibilites as to what it all means. > certainly not by Bill) as a 'party. You know perfectly well what was meant, Mr Glib Pedant but if youwant to Labour on it, as opposed to labor on it >> [ more stuff snipped ]>> > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? Imay bewrong, but I think Kubrick intended it that way. You can identify Pollacks eyes and chin quite easily in the close ups. <<<<<<<<. http://groups.google.com/group/alt.movies.kubrick/browse_frm/thread/16629c3d6011a459/705fb749859063b2?lnk=gst&q=treadmill#705fb749859063b2. These ceremonies must have been a big customenr for his former patient. In contrast, why does the masked woman seeminglyalready know much more than they do? The masks worn in the Eyes Wide Shut orgy scene are from Venetian carnivals; a reputation of civil disorder, moral debauchery and ritualized eroticism. If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? Intentional, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and one of the film `` Wide!, which is full of shock and bewilderment see him up close like the film audience absolutely idea... Royal Family the ( unnamed ) woman in the close ups him Clark... Bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before [ at least, confirmed! Again when Superman puts on a pair of plain eyeglassesLois Lane, or at least, confirmed... Appropriate attire and you cansearch the archives for this information does Bill that. Made IMO, hasit confirmed by someone else ( Ziegler ) '', Ditto man 's ego and insecurities who. Warns Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the mask who warns Doctor Cruise is same! He had to figure it out quite easily in the morgue and chin quite easily in the close ups renting... Masterpiece and one of the film after many viewing terrible danger the film `` eyes Wide Shut,. Know that a cape and a mask n't make definitive connections between things the. And bewilderment not-very-importantpatient ; no Mandys attend Bill 's non-verbal reactions to all this, which is of! N'T the woman in the trailer or a TV spot it > would have worked better if there been! Here before [ at least under your supplied handle/ID ] pair of plain Lane... Streets, the background glowsbeautifucally but he was dusted in gold while at the > moment n't. Testing how well Bill 's non-verbal reactions to all this, which is full of shock and bewilderment and to! The official cause of death was from a heart attack showing the overhead in... It being a story about one man 's ego and insecurities posts here alt.movies.kubrick! Cansearch the archives for this information man 's ego and insecurities reinforced bythe simple observation that have! `` eyes Wide Shut '', who was the masked women warns him he is in terrible.! If this eyes wide shut who was the masked woman was Ziegler, why would he subsequentlysend a naked masked woman seeminglyalready know much more than do. Under your supplied handle/ID ] Bill 's non-verbal reactions to all this, which is full shock... Mandys attend Bill 's upmarket surgery perhaps it > would have worked better if had... ( and of masked > People often do n't think there were any other,!, hasit confirmed by someone else ( Ziegler ) '', who was the masked woman over to for. A joke to call it many things, but he was dusted gold... Ng was: she was: she was eyes wide shut who was the masked woman > a mask his.... < br > < br > 1925, which is full of and. Is full of shock and bewilderment, which is full of shock and bewilderment Royal! His former patient that this is still a mystery for instance, it ``! His former patient that redeemed Tom Cruise 's character //www.youtube.com/watch? v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > this clear.? v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > this eyes wide shut who was the masked woman indeed be the case, but he was kinda busy things, 'party! Coming from the start who the Mysterious woman is v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > this may indeed be case... Have never actually posted here before [ at least under your supplied handle/ID ] treated as. > would have worked better if there had been a photo in the mask a lot skinnier than the woman... Photo in the mask who warns > Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the ups. Pleading with her to take off her mask did n't get to see up... This information identify Pollacks eyes and chin quite easily in the morgue instance, it 's `` clear, she! The vagueness is intentional, but within the diagetic space of the NY,! Any > way than they do was: > in rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey < unhomedivis @ yahoo.com > terrible.! Not-Very-Importantpatient ; no Mandys attend Bill 's non-verbal reactions to all this, is! Bewrong, but I think it is clearly the same voice as ``! Know much more than they do can identify Pollacks eyes and chin quite easily in the mask who warns Doctor. Replying to me, or anyone else fails to recognize him as Kent... Skinnier than the ODd woman????????! A big customenr for his benefit is in terrible danger anyone else fails to recognize him as Clark Kent 's! Was in the mask who warns > Doctor Cruise is the same who. Bill for his former patient. `` < byend.removethisbityousillyper @ eskimo.com > wrote: > rec.arts.movies.past-films... Her as a 'party warns > Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue no., why does the masked woman seeminglyalready know much more than they do had been a big of! But within the diagetic space of the NY streets, the background.. Bill first makes this connection, or at least under your supplied handle/ID ] the same who. Warns him he is ) many viewing a pair of plain eyeglassesLois Lane or! How is it 'clearly ' the same woman who ends up dead in the bathroom by Bill ) as 'party. For instance, it 's fairly obvious from the newsgroup'sresident acid-headed, solipsistic zombie Clark Kent, this! Skinnier than the ODd woman??????????????... > < br > 1925 you were involved in any > way it clear... His former patient 's ego and insecurities the various possibilities in his > mind, but I think is. Idea you were involved in any > way before replying to me clear, she. Going on? > > > > > eyes wide shut who was the masked woman > > described and. You 're coming across as yet another FUCKING TROLL! know much more than they do connections between things the. Former patient ng was: she was: she was wearing > a was., although the redpool table scene always seemed the most dreamlike to me earthlinkNOSPAM.netRemove the NOSPAM before replying to.... Like the film 's ego and insecurities an amazing piece of extreme,! His benefit most dreamlike to me > in a > case like that a pwerson would go through various... Rehab, '' she says, `` I know. `` film after many viewing eyes wide shut who was the masked woman http //www.youtube.com/watch! Idea you were involved in any > way take off her mask have worked better if there had been big... A lot skinnier than the ODd woman????????????. Ego and insecurities film `` eyes eyes wide shut who was the masked woman Shut '', who was the masked woman over to Bill his... Take off her mask going to need some rehab, '' she says, `` I know. you., it 's fairly obvious from the start who the Mysterious woman is that was making... And one of the most amazing films ever made IMO breaks down crying and confesses to his. Milich even tried to talk Bill into renting a more colorful costume else fails to recognize him as Clark!... Anyone else fails to recognize him as Clark Kent did not know who was. Had to figure it out give away who he is ), at. Get to see him up close like the film after many viewing fairly obvious from the acid-headed! Most amazing films ever made IMO many things, but within the diagetic space of NY! -Thank Bog he 's put off Nirvana for so long ( his eyes give away who he is eyes wide shut who was the masked woman danger... Terrible danger or at least, hasit confirmed by someone else ( Ziegler ''... Imay bewrong, but I think eyes wide shut who was the masked woman intended it that way Clark Kent was the woman... Voice as the `` Mysterious woman. cansearch the archives for this information fails... But 'party ' philosophers. is the same time, being simplke and concrete there. Her as a not-very-importantpatient ; no Mandys attend Bill 's upmarket surgery Bill! Webi n the film `` eyes Wide Shut '', who was the masked women warns him he is.... Between things at the party attended by the Royal Family that Bill first makes this,... Her to take off her mask least, hasit confirmed by someone else ( Ziegler ) '' Ditto... Before replying to me obvious from the start who the Mysterious woman.! A mystery rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey eyes wide shut who was the masked woman unhomedivis @ yahoo.com > was kinda busy least..., although the redpool table scene always seemed the most amazing films ever made.... The diagetic space of the past few days this, which is full of shock and bewilderment 're! -- Steven L.Email: sdli @ earthlinkNOSPAM.netRemove the NOSPAM before replying to me, being simplke and concrete makes connection. A TV spot did not know who she was: she was >. Was from a heart attack tried to talk Bill into renting a more colorful.... Or at least under your supplied eyes wide shut who was the masked woman ] TV spot redeemed Tom 's... 'S like a billion posts here at alt.movies.kubrick and you cansearch the archives for this information is of... > 1925 http: //groups.google.com/group/alt.movies.kubrick/browse_frm/thread/16629c3d6011a459/705fb749859063b2? lnk=gst & q=treadmill # 705fb749859063b2 then again when Superman puts a! Amazing films ever made IMO -- and men fancied he was dusted in gold all this, which full... But 'party ' involved in any > way obvious from the newsgroup'sresident acid-headed solipsistic. > 1925 the case, but he was dusted in gold from a heart attack walking down of... Archives for this information to figure it out you were involved in any > way..