Alden Barrie: I can be comfortable in Bluchers in 8.5E. Very comfortable, heel is a smidge roomy, but overall an extremely comfortable last. Looking to buy (a much much cheaper alternative to aldens ) the Berwick plain toe derbyhttps://britishshoecompany.co.uk/collections/berwick-1707/products/berwick-mens-derby-leather-lace-up-shoes-5768-k6. Not sure why this is the case. 8.5D may have worked with thinner socks. To me, theyd come in just below C&J, Loding in Canada had a service (a couple years back) that involved a full time patina specialist in Montreal. Their marketing is deceitful at best which puts them out of my radar immediately. Take a ruler and measure between the base of the paper to the marked line. *Although I trust Jespers impartiality, it needs to be stated that he now works for Skolyx, which has its own shoe brand and sells other shoes. Anyone that gets these Carmina shoes for their wardrobe would be getting some of the best style statements of their lives. I guess the issue is that I've not worn an English shoe before. If you can spend that extra 100-150 I sincerely recommend buying a pair of shoes from Carmina or TLB Artista. The only issue is that the classic range is very stiff, and hard to break in. I usually just buy shoes in the 500 range when they go on sale for 200-300, but in the 300 range I really like the Austrian manufacturer Handmacher; they make shoes on traditionally boxy Viennese lasts, and they use tiny wooden nails to connect the soles to the uppers. In general, I think this breakdown demonstrates that you still largely get what you pay for with shoes. These boots make me want to convert my entire boot collection to White's. I dont cover the other brands on this list normally either. Cheaper shoes will often have small mistakes, such as little splits in the sole or heel stack. It's other Asian brands that are likely to become known in the West first, though. Styleforum is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. The Shell Cordovan, non-Alden Shoe and Boot Thread, Find reviews, recommendations, tips about and appreciation of fine cutlery here. 8UK was much too loose. Asics GT2000: 11 - Perfect fit. After trying on shoes in Trading Post, the fit is so much better than any western brands Ive ever tried. I recently started to be more careful about how I track my wardrobe spending. I typically shy away from the lighter browns etc.. and thought this might be a good alternative and could be quite versatile. The nicest pair of shoes I own is a pair of JM Weston oxfords (from their main line, not the Blake line), and I have to work to tell the difference between the two (Weston has shaped heels, for example). Andres Sendra: I have a pair of wholecuts. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. It was a hard break in, mostly just the arch. Carmina is the best of the Mallorca-based shoemakers (which includes Meermin and TLB Mallorca), but is more expensive than either Meermin or Spier & Mackay by about double. Parkhurst 9D: Great fit. Even for me and I have narrower feet than the average man. For the price of a brand new AE Id rather get a pair of C&J or Carminas for a little more. Jack & White Bros Round Last 9: Probably the best fit now. Thanks for the response. Jesper thinks Skolyx (above) is better in this regard than the others, though he is biased*. In terms of value I would say CJ handgrade. Actually Im surprised Crownhill wasnt mentioned here, I thought they were quite popular. I have had a painted patina on several shoes see Berluti here, Dandy here, Carreducker here and G&G here. Japan is the biggest market in Asia for dress shoe brands, but a lot of the cheaper shoes (below 200) are made elsewhere in Asia and just finished at home (similar to Italy). I am just wondering if there is anything else I am missing. Any sock works but medium thickness (Darn Tough light cushion) is ideal. I can see a grey being useful, but that's about all probably. Being from the UK my first proper pair of shoes at University were a pair of Loake 1880s they were fine and really all I needed at the time. Thick, high quality leather, but without the supple stretchiness that C&Js and Westons uppers both have. I would also recommend Thomas George Collection (based in Melbourne) and Crownhill Shoes (Spain), two quality brands who sit at the same price range of Morjas/Velasca and they do great bang for the bucket GW Shoes. However, it shows. However, after having broken in the heel of my 9.5E MP, I feel like I would have actually been just fine going straight 9.5E. Suede. I would also add that instead of trying to prove potential readers wrong, you might accept criticism gracefully and might have more success by doing more research and improving your writing. Viberg 2020 8.5 GYW: Kinda snug, had to stretch out the instep, slightly smaller than the stitchdown version. The last of their chukka didnt fit me, but the suede felt surprisingly good for the price. May have been fine with thinner socks. Morjas uses corrected-grain leather, despite their claims to the contrary. 55 last 9.5E: Excellent fit with thick or thin socks, this is what boot heaven feels like! That would be much less possible for me at higher price points. There is one new Brand Lethato seen on different portals and I saw their boots are attractive and reasonably priced. Im a student in Sweden and I have worn a couple of the brands mentioned in the article (and in the comment section) during the last couple of years. Thanks a lot Simon. They didn't gave Detroit EEE in stock so I couldn't try it. Ive mostly moved to bespoke now due to my weird feet, but I do own a pair of Morjas suede chukkas that I use in bad weather. Its a helpful round up, especially since I find this price bracket to be a sweet spot for my own purposes. Jack, I havent looked at Weston in quite a while Im afraid Jack, but from what I remember they are around that kind of level, yes. I guess they are really strong in the marketing department indeed. Thats the opposite advice I received on rain from someone else. So my true size is an 11.5, in most American boots I'm an 11, and all my boots with European sizing (like Tricker's) are a 10.5. Overall, Carmina shoes are better than Meermin shoes. Thing is that, not referring to Berluti necessarily now, but we do see a number of very famous bespoke shoemakers, not least in England, who the past years have started to put out shoes that arent properly made and/or have a proper fit. Carminas are better than Meermin shoes today because of one major thing: Better Material Quality. And in pictures I can see a difference in appearance, at least in terms of shape and design, but I am not sure if there is much of a difference elsewhere (I get that bespoke and such will fit nicer). !!! Its a smidge roomy, but I don't believe going an extra half down would have worked and I prefer boots to be worn with boot socks. Ive never heard of it or tried it, and probably wouldnt in the future as I say at the top of this most, this isnt my area of expertise really. The insoles also havent molded to the shape of my foot as I would expect by this point. I returned this pair. Allen Edmonds 511 9.5D: Seemed like a bad fit or just poorly lasted. Meermins are not bad fits though; these shoes are flexible and stretchable enough to blend with your feet measurements accurately once you get the right sizing. That said, something in the post did strike me negatively, on a subject I previously had been puzzled about: appraisal of Allen Edmonds. Meermin shoes are also very comfortable due to the relaxed feel of their Double Insoles System but they are not as comfortable as the Carmina shoes. Did you ever talk to them about what is the rationale behind this strategy? I guess you get what you pay for but this level of quality for the leather should be mentioned. The instep is high, but massive on the service boot pattern. Every now and then I got excited by a nice design at a lower price point only to be disappointed by quality issues. . I find that you almost always get what you pay for when it comes to goodyear welted shoes and both of these shoemakers are a big step up from all the budget tier brands I have tried in terms of materials, fit, craftmanship and durability. Back to Morjas specifically. I would instead recommend taking this last TTS and just wearing thick socks as sometimes it can run small. Ostmo Moe 43.5: Tried these on and this was a bang on size. Im a scrooge but think this is crucial to include in your mental budget. I can only speak for Cheaney, but the staff were very helpful and there was a good range when I visited around 7 months ago. Measured as 9.5 D. Will get more detailed measurements after the pandemic, along with a military last fitting. Theyre all Spanish except Septieme Largeur, which is French but made in Spain. The Yanko felt very similar to the TLB if a bit softer overall (this makes sense as the founder of TLB used to be with Yanko). A little little uncomfortable initially, but that's just due to the heel counter. Interesting that not many people would know that though. The shoes might look good on the feet, but if you pick them up and look closer, youll notice little errors. Predictably, this European company uses European sizing, which is normally a full size down from your Brannock (or "true") size. There are many places out there that have discussions about shoe sizing across brands and lasts, but I wanted to get a thread started here as well. Rancourt 115 9D: Great fit. RUI 9: Great fit as I recall from trying in a store over a year ago. The US has several brands that fit into this discussion - some old, some new. For example, I got two new boots from the UK this week: a shell Carmina balmoral at just over $500 USD and C&J Galway 2 at just under $390 USD. However, when I visited meermin pop up in London, I dont think I would ever get a black box calf from them! Very comfortable, great instep for oxfords, * **Trickers W2298** 8UK a bit tight at the toes, perfectly snug everywhere else, * **Trickers 4444** 8UK tiny bit of heel slip, fits like a dream at the ball, * **Thomas George Jackas** 7.5UK a bit roomy. Loake Bullet last (F-fit): 7Uk fits but a bit tight around toes. Seeing an article like this is refreshing, its nice to see PS being more inclusive by discussing products which are more budget friendly. I own several of the shoes mentioned in this article (Meermin, Allen Edmonds, Loake 1880, Carmina) and if theres one thing I learned, it is that: you cant buy Gold for the price of Copper. The big differentiating factor is not business model, but location of manufacture. I had the hope it would get softer and stretch a bit. I have only handled and tried on two pairs (a wholecut on the Rain last and an unlined loafer) but my impressions are fairly consistent. Did not break in enough to be able to wear even thin socks. Chunky, comfortable, and with nice make but the suede itself is nothing special, certainly worse than Crownhill in the same price range. Grant Stone Leo 9D: Great fit all around. With TLB, you could choose a more versatile dark-brown calf, or perhaps brown suede but with leather soles. Good article. In my view, any proper maker would redo a pair coming out like that. A couple of years ago, I returned two pairs of Oxfords that needed resoling after less than ten wears each. 1 down the toe could be getting very short. Everyone in London should visit John and ask for his advice on shoes. Your mentioning Jesper`s financial interests is interesting would more call this commercial however. Barker has indeed several models in corrected grain, you find them under hi-shine on their own website. Nice article , but why the article call these cheap shoes? I'd still stick with your usual 2030 size. I just had the opportunity to try on some Carminas in store. RON 9: Terrible fit. Like the arbitrary claim that the soles on English soles wear out more quickly than European ones. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, This is an example of what a good comment looks like. Foot extends past footbed on sides. The Brannock size (heel-to-toe) will be the top parent comment. Check the Noble Shoe eshop for several decent ones. I got tired of my usual worn brands price development and wanted to see if it is possible to find decent shoes under 300 Euros, which in my eyes is in no way cheap. * **Alden Aberdeen** 9D loosened up a bit with wear, * **Alden Van** 8.5D comfortable in shell, * **Antonio Meccariello Aeris Soft Square** 8.5UK excellent fit, * **Antonio Meccariello Chisel II** 8.5UK bit loose all round, I suspect half a size down would have fit better but a become a bit tight at the pinky toe, * **Berwick1707 240** 42EU quite snug all round, perfect for a summer loafer, * **Carlos Santos 1944/r1s** 8UK fantastic loafer fit, * **Carlos Santos 401/s** 8UK forefoot a bit roomy, * **Carmina Pina** 8UK too much heel slip for a loafer, * **Carmina Simpson** 8.5UK instep too low, * **Clematis Ginza unknown oxford last** 8UK (made by Joe Works, also too low an instep), * **Common Projects Achilles Low** 41EU Fits but toe box feels too low, * **Common Projects Achilles Low** 42EU Great fit, * **Crockett & Jones 314** 8EUK snug all round, not much toe room, * **Edward Green 184** 8.5UK fantastic loafer fit. Now, Id probably look at a boot like the Conniston or Islay. I have given up after several wears as the blisters arent worth it. ), but perhaps that wouldnt be entirely appropriate. Grant Stone Leo 9D: Solid fit. Vass, TLB Artista, even Meccariello. Carmina Rain: UK 11 (best fitting Carmina last for me) Carmina Inca: UK 11 (too tight across instep) Carmina Forest: UK 11.5 (snug instep) Carmina Simpson: my feet are too wide for this last. Would be interesting to hear. Best fitting Viberg last, comfortable from day one, even more than the newer 2030, but this has a little bit extra arch support and has some anatomical properties as well due to being a munson style. I bought AS through him when they were the best value for money in higher end shoes then moved to C&J on his advice. Spoo coming through with a great thread. I shouldn't have slept on it), Monitaly Shawl Field Jacket - Black Herringbone 38, The unofficial NMWA Buy/Sell Thread (a.k.a. The leather feels like a glove and is truly unlined (to the extent that the uppers almost collapse under their own weight), unlike Carminas unlined shoes which dont feel all that different from normal lined shoes. I will look for a similar style shoe latest next year. Perhaps more time and break in on the stiff leather sole would make it work. Actually, given the reader survey we did last year and how much the average reader earns and spends, I wouldnt be surprised if most do spend that regularly on their shoes. Also it seems that Carmina outlet in Granada used to sell Meermin shoes a few years back. Ive purchased two pairs over the past 10 months from brands in this article. Is it really that costly to offer and stock a range of widths/sizes in order to ensure customers can find a comfortable shoe? As someone who has purchased a few of these brands, I found this article to be very interesting and accurate. Im really looking forward to the promised article on TLB Artista. The ball of my foot is at the widest part of the boot. I think I could also safely do this last in in 9.5, but I'm not trying to wear my boots as tight as possible. Ive always found the customer service at EG shocking. Vans Old Skool/Era: 11D, solid out of the box. The other thing about Carmina is they have increased prices and reduced quality in some areas in recent years. Baker's recommended 8.5D, but I think I would have been happier with 9D. Hugs my foot like a glove on all sides, including the arch, but I wouldn't mind if the heel was a bit more snug. I made the same experience with Bobbies shoes which ended in an oddyssey of sending shoes back and forth. I suspect the 1035 in 9.5 would fit me perfectly. Carminas are more expensive than Meermins. . I acknowledge I am emotionally attached to AE, it was the first quality brand I could access. Interesting to hear you sized up for Simpson when based on your description above you Could probably have stayed on an 8. both pairs have a dainite (or dainite-type, in Meermin's case) sole the Meermins have blind eyelets, whereas the Carminas have a brass eyelet that look to match the speedhook finish the heel on the Carminas is quite a bit longer than Meermin's The former you appreciate in the shoes over time. Id have to say that, based on my personal experience, the C&J shops are one of the great strengths of the company. Will never purchase from that brand again. You are using an out of date browser. These insoles are advanced comfort systems that are meant to keep your feet comfy and cozy all day. At C&Js benchgrade level, you can choose from black or chestnut calf (both with a leather sole), or brown suede with a rubber sole and youre limited to their 348 last. Somehow lower instep than E? JF main line would definitely be in Spain 1. To me, the leather feels similar to Carmina, though possibly even stiffer and more inflexible. For reference, previous sizing threads 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 for extra data points. The only major disadvantage compared to Goodyear is that the stitches come through on the inside of the shoe. Viberg 2020 8.5 Stitchdown: Pretty snug, cannot wear boot socks in. I have wide feet (I wear 8EEE on the 65 last in Allen Edmonds) so almost none of the regular lasts fit me, except for Forest 7.5EEE. Also worth noting, is that Ive never written about this on Shoegazing, it just came up in the discussion with Simon when we talked about differences. Morjas is similar in having a cleaner make, and is a touch more expensive than the other two. Viberg 110: Last is shorter than other service boot lasts. JavaScript is disabled. Way too narrow all around, last too tapered for my taste. Toe box is comfortable but not a lot of play, heel is well locked in. Trickers 4497s: 8.5 is a little too short, while 9 feels too big in most pairs. Slightly low arches. Particularly I struggle with the heel which I find very wide with most English makers. In fact at some point I wondered whether you were being protectionist of Northampton makers by apparently shunning AE, but then I could not see anywhere else that could be like you. Oak Street Bootmakers Elston 9.5D: Only tried on, seemed like a good fit, but the boots went back for a return. However to their credit, Loakes customer service was excellent. 2. The Septieme Larguer felt very similar to the Andres Sendra from what I remember. You have to excuse Carminas for being more expensive than Meermins; but when you look at it critically, the difference in cost price is justifiable when you see that Carmina shoes offer more value than the Meermins. For me, thats the right balance: There are diminishing returns to the higher quality make you can get with more expensive manufacturers, and a lot of my enjoyment comes from having shoes that are fit for particular purposes e.g., sleeker oxfords to wear with suits and smarter trousers, chunkier brogue and split-toes for more casual outfits, rubber soles for wet weather, unlined loafers for the summer, etc. After that in the US you get down into much cheaper brands, like John Doe which are made in Mexico. I also happen to like their lasts, which are sleeker than anything else I own but the C&J 348. EL, I think you kind of answered the question in your first statement. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. (Vibergs cxl is different to Thursday boots cxl.). France doesnt have the shoemaking tradition of the UK, Spain or Italy, and its brands like Loding or Orbans are all made in Spain and Portugal. on that curve of diminishing returns. I recently received these is shell and I'm still breaking them in. I cant imagine very people are going to buy a sports jacket or merino sweater there. So for example, they now only curve the waist line on the inside of their shoe, and not the outside. Please support us by using them. Red Wing 8 last 9D: Decent fit at first, fairly comfortable once broken in. The heel is the most notably roomier and the length actually seems to be the same. Id love to step up to Crocketts as Ive heard great things. The $200 Meermins (while being good value for money) is nowhere near the equivalent of a pair of Carminas, and they would be quite far from the likes of G&G or EG. They had also banned any online store to ship them out to Canada. However, I would recommend ones like TLB and Skolyx that I have had experience with. Makes buying difficult, much like with Vass. Red Wing 8 9D: decent fit. But its a not a secret that English brands, in general (this for example does not go for the premium brands) use less good leather soles than Spanish and Italian makers of welted shoes, in general. Although, suede uppers would take a long time to wear out. Cheers Adam, and very pleased thats the case. Viberg 2030E 8.5: Good to great fit, but depends on the year and the run. Ive found having slowly worked my way up the chain that in terms of value for money, its Cheaney, Trickers and Alfred Sargent which have ultimately paid off. It is relatively easy to find them discounted, Apologies if this question is in the wrong place. They last forever, but unfortunately they are even stiffer than Meermin shoes (really didnt like those), and take a year or two to wear in. Carmina shoes are better than Meermin shoes when all things are considered. I appreciate it doesnt work for everyone geographically, but most of the famous English brands are still manufactured in the Northampton region. Very few English RTW offer much in the way of narrow lasts. In addition they come in some very handsome styles. Well start with three Swedish ones, all making in Spain or Portugal. Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today! For what its worth, Ive purchased more boots in the past 3 years than any other style of footwear (dress/service types of models). Old Edlyn is equivalent to a 41.5, * **Winson Qilin** EU42 fantastic fit all round, * **Winson Stark** EU42 Great fit on an engineer, instep is high enough to slip and and off and there is only a bit of heel slip due to the shaped heel. Good point Ben, Im not sure. Again, a big thank you to Simon and Jesper for the article. Alden Barrie (lined shell): 10D, a little snug at the big toe but great in the ball and very supportive overall. My next purchase would probably be one from G&Gs classic collection, but I can hardly justify buying another shoe when I have 2 brand new pairs (another Meermin and Trickers) which remain unworn due to quarantine. Any other top level comments will be deleted. However, a really bright or unsual patina has never really been my style, and is becoming even less so. I have had a very different experience with EG service. A very nice pair of black cap toes on the Eton last but far to hard to break in. Leo 9.5E: Excellent fit with thin socks. It's been a while, but I didn't have any complaints after break in. Thank you for this listing Simon. First impressions tell us most of what we need to know about certain products. Carmina shoes are stylish, comfortable, unique, durable, and very cost-effective. Ive spent up to $2000 on a suit or sports jacket or coat on various occasions but have never spent more than $350 on a pair of shoes. Looking at the Genova last. Note: this is for the old China models. When weve returned to normal I might need a trip to Spain to try on a selection from Carmina, Meermin and the other brands suggested in this article. Particularly for certain watches perhaps, although less likely for certain muted bespoke suits which might fit better but wont look more expensive than a good of-the-peg one. Here you'll find an extensive sizing chart for Goodyear welted shoes from Skolyx, Yanko and TLB Mallorca. Morjas, and the other Swedish brands Myrqvist and Skolyx, all use leather board heel stiffeners. The dress shoes classics hold their own. Based on reviews, Im hopeful. (My feet are only moderately narrow, so I dont have issues with normal width lace up shoes). Im trying to decide between the following two options: 1) Myrqvist Molle Loafers @ 151 per pair, 2) Trickers Elton Loafers @ 225 per pair (on sale). They also have thin rubber soles throughout, which some people like more, but is cheaper as well.. It depends what else you have of course, but a dark brown or slimmer overall look is more likely to be more useful,.and certainly better for suits. Still pretty good value (it is the company I originally used before I could afford better) but not nearly as good as it was some time ago. From time to time you find great deals for +/- USD 600. No more Stows for me. No worries at all, its much appreciated. No stretch sir. I have found Robert (admittedly in sales, not specifically costumer service) to be accommodating in every respect; answering scores of questions over a months long decision making process. Not break in toe could be getting some of the shoe of brands. Feet are only moderately narrow, so I could n't try it you to Simon and Jesper the. Line would definitely be in Spain ( my feet are only moderately narrow, so dont! Would definitely be in Spain 1 reduced quality in some very handsome styles versatile dark-brown calf, perhaps... 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